Re: [DISCUSS] Developer chat (+FoundationDB chat)

Florian Hockmann <f...@...>

It looks like we have a wide consensus on starting a new channel for development discussions, but different opinions on whether we should directly create a dedicated channel for FoundationDB and also on whether we should switch to a different system than Gitter.
So, I will create a new channel janusgraph-dev on Gitter and we can then see whether we need dedicated channels for, e.g., FoundationDB. If contributors have a strong opinion on moving to a different system, then please start a different thread for that so we can discuss it in general as Henry also already suggested. Since we didn't reach a consensus on this topic here, I don't want to let it stop the creation of the dev channel.

If that sounds OK to everyone, I will create the janusgraph-dev channel tomorrow on Gitter.

Am Dienstag, 14. April 2020 23:52:58 UTC+2 schrieb Henry Saputra:

Sorry I just saw this discussions. Thanks for pinging me, Misha.

As Misha and Florian had mentioned, we did some investigating and exploring which "chat" tool we will use for JanusGraph.
We chose Gitter due to the low barrier and maintenance to join and start discussions compare to Slack.

The discussion that Florian start with was about new channel for Development discussions in Gitter for JanusGraph, which I think it is great idea, so +1 for it.
This will allow real-time mechanism in addition to our mailing list to talk about development ideas and progress.
As for FoundationDb, I think we could just use Dev channel to discuss about it instead of dedicated channel for it.

We could discuss moving or embrace other chat tool like Slack and Discord in other thread as separate topic.


- Henry

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 4:19 AM Florian Hockmann <f...@...> wrote:
I think Misha has good arguments for staying on Gitter. I personally don't think that we need a high entry barrier for a developer chat as we currently also don't get many non-dev questions in the Google group for developers. People instead ask in janusgraph-users (if they ask in a Google group that is) and I don't see why that should be different on Gitter as they can still ask their usage questions in the main Gitter chat that is already quite active.
We should also try to stay as open as possible with our development discussions to not exclude some people in my opinion. If we notice that we still get too many usage questions in a dev chat, then we can still create a private chat room in Gitter. (It looks at least from a quick search that it's possible to do that with Gitter.)

The other main argument against Gitter and pro Discord I see would be the voice chat, but I'm not sure how important that actually is for us.

Another topic that was discussed here was whether we actually need a dedicated channel just for FoundationDB. I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I suggest that we then simply start with a general dev channel and see whether we have a lot of FoundationDB specific discussions there and then we can still create a dedicated channel.

Am Dienstag, 7. April 2020 18:34:24 UTC+2 schrieb Jan Jansen:

On 7. Apr 2020, at 18:09, 'Misha Brukman' via JanusGraph developers <jan...@...> wrote:

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:36 AM 'Jan Jansen' via JanusGraph developers <jan...@...> wrote:
Some of your reason are exactly the reason why I’m against Gitter. 
Currently Gitter is for JanusGraph just support chat. This channel would be hard to use for the developer focused talks. Therefore, we have created private channel or highly moderate channel just for development focused topics. I think having an extra platform where you have to signup separately would reduce the support questions, massively. 

Are you trying to have the same separation on Gitter as we do with janusgraph-users@ and janusgraph-dev@ mailing lists? Would creating separate channels on Gitter not address this? Or are you saying you've already done this, and it's not helping?
I thought about the separation of google groups. I think just a different channel of wouldn’t help because some people just ignore these rules. For example github issues, you have a template for question which says please ask in the google group and they ignore it. In the google group, you see it less often. I think an extra barrier between both channels would separate these topics better.
I didn’t know history thing in slack.

The free version of Slack limits the workspace to 10000 recent messages; however, my understanding is that this is a global number, not a per-channel number. In some free workspaces I've seen, for less active channels, this means ~zero history because other channels are so active, that they continuously exhaust the 10K most recent messages, so if you're not there to see the message, you'll see almost nothing.
I mentioned also Discord which also includes voice channels.

I didn't realize folks would enjoy live voice chat, but it does sound like an interesting option.


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